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So the conversation about last night's Midnight Ridazz Fun Time Sprinkler Ride just keeps getting better and better. As soon as I received the "Open Letter" I posted it along with my own opinion regarding some of the behavior that went down, and then immediately emailed the author.
I received several other opinions via email, which I asked permission if I could post them online. One person said yes (as long as I corrected it for grammar) and the other didn't respond, but I think their opinions are valid so here are their comments:
B.S. said:
I live at 17th and Rio Grande and I am also a cyclist. Although I missed most of the action, I have heard 3 sides of the story by now and it sounds like there was some aggression on both sides. I believe there was probably friendliness and tolerance on both sides as well.
I just want to say, as a resident, I sometimes do kick interlopers out of our pool, which is invaded by people virtually every night in the summer. Though it is rarely invaded by so many. Sometimes I make them leave and sometimes I overlook it. When I do kick them out, sometimes it is because they are being loud at night, sometimes for bringing glass into the pool, and once because two idiots went swimming in the middle of a lightening storm. Honestly, I don't know how I would have reacted last night. But, if you lived here and dealt with this all the time as we do, it might start to wear thin on your patience as well.
I do want to offer this one tidbit however: If the aggression started in your group, them shame on you. If the aggression was a reaction to some yelling by our residents, then also shame on you. The reason I say this is because, really, you should except the probability of getting yelled at. All the riders should know that they may piss some people off by descending as a horde into an otherwise peaceful and quite community that has no idea what is going on. So, in the future, please get the word out that verbal insults and yelling are a real possibility and should be returned with diplomacy, respect, and understanding.
Sincerely,
Rio House Resident
B.S. brings up a good point. Obviously the residents are supposed to be there. Hell, they live there. If they tell us to clear out, we should be polite and do it. Yelling back and taunting only escalates things, and if the cops DO happen to show up whose side do you think they'll be on? There's no reason to start shit, all that does is get us kicked out and makes things worse. Next time lets just bite our tongue, knowing that Austin is our playground and there's another pool JUST around the corner.
Another person emailed me the following. Unfortunately I didn't get a response as to if I could post it or not, but it's easier to beg forgiveness and all that...
Jason - I don't live at Rio House. I don't ride a bike (but mainly just because mine got stolen years ago and in addition I'm really, really lazy). But after reading all about last night's ride and what happened at Rio House, I just have to say it simply wasn't cool. Trespassing may be a fun adventure for you, and I'm sure this event was intended to be just good fun, but your group forgot (or simply didn't care) that not everyone thinks having strangers splashing around in their pool and running around their complex at 10:00 on a Tuesday night is fun. Some may have to get up early. Some may have migraines. Some may just appreciate having a pool that is actually intended for residents. I just can't imagine anyone thinking that it was a good idea for a group of that size to invade a residential area in that manner. I'm not very cool, can't think of anything clever to say. But I wanted to voice my dismay at this situation.
It was quickly followed by this...
Oh yeah. Just because you thought it wasn't a big deal, doesn't mean it wasn't to those who live there. And just because they DO think it's a big deal, doesn't mean they're boring, or assholes. And it being an apartment rather than a house doesn't make it any less annoying. You just managed to piss off more people at one time. Well done.
Doing what we did with 100+ people was definitely pushing it. I'm all for some playful trespassing as long as property doesn't get wrecked and we clean up after ourselves, but if you were there you know it became a madhouse in all of 5 minutes. They do have a point, though personally I think some of the people at the apartment complex were boring. AND assholes. As were some of the riders. ;)
Next time lets hit a city pool and jump the fence, maybe not piss off a whole apartment complex?
Another decent spot for conversation was on the author's own blog. Violence is suggested, apologies are rendered, and I remind her of my offer.
Now on to the good good shit. I wrote the author of the open letter back, trying to address a few points, apologize, and maybe make amends over the damaged plants. Her responses weren't quite what I'd expect of such a prolific blogger, but if you want to see what was said on both sides, read on past the cut...
First, my response to her open letter:
Jason to Stella 12:32pm:
Thanks for taking the time to write me about last night. I've published your email verbatim on my website (atxbs.com), and added a few comments of my own after the message. Could you forward me the image of your plants from your email? For some reason the link didn't work.
This ride wasn't an "action" or motivated by politics, whoever planned the ride just chose your pool as one of our stops. We also ended up at a pool over off of Far West, and at a set of sprinklers in the North Loop neighborhood. The size of the ride was unexpected, which I think added to the chaos.
I'm sorry to hear that riders were rude to y'all, and that your plants were trampled. If it's any consolation after last night I don't expect the Midnight Ridazz will ever crash your pool again.
Jason
She replied briefly:
Stella to Jason 1:15pm:
How would you assholes like it if we followed you back to your homes, woke you up, banged on your doors and windows, scared your children, trampled your personal property, insulted and taunted you and tried to intimidate you?
FUCK OFF.
Surprised at her response, I responded in a way that may not have been the best, but what can you do. Here it is, preserved in bytes for all of time:
Jason to Stella 1:32pm:
While I can't speak for any other "assholes", this specific one wouldn't mind too terribly, but then I happen to like unexpected parties, late night guests and surprise visitors. The insults and taunts do sound rather childish, but as I wasn't taunting or insulting I can't address that directly. For reference I was the heavily tattooed fellow waving and thanking the three friendly residents for their hospitality as we were leaving. The trampling of your property downright pisses me off, and I tried to make that clear when I re-posted your message to the community on my website. Occasionally apartment life involves unexpected noises and disturbances. The intent wasn't to target you or your loved ones, we just wanted to take liberties with your pool. Was it really that scary? Like I said, I don't expect this ride to ever stop by your complex again, due to the unwelcome reception we received from a few of the residents.
I guess that's all I have to say. Thanks again for sharing, and consider off fucked.
Jason
Hey, this is why I don't get paid to write! She followed up with two quick responses, which include several questions:
Stella to Jason 1:35pm:
Have you ever been a single woman living alone? Have you ever been the victim of a violent crime?
"unexpected parties, late night guests and surprise visitors" ?!
"to take liberties with your pool" ?!
YOU WEREN'T INVITED.
How would you like it if we took liberties with YOUR HOUSE? Or YOUR BIKE?
You wouldn't. And we don't appreciate it either.
And:
Stella to Jason 1:42pm:
So - you know where we live.
Why don't you give me your address. I'd love to come over something and have an "unexpected party" or "take liberties" with your property, while trampling over your flowers and bikes.
Fine, I'll bite. She wants to trample on my flowers and party in my back yard, why not? I like to party, so I extended the invitation, shot her my address, and gave her a number to RSVP with. Not only that, but this is also where I originally offered to replace the plants:
Jason to Stella 2:24pm:
While I'm obviously not a single woman, I have lived alone and have also been the victim of a violent crime. What happened last night was not violent, and the worst crime I could imagine might be criminal trespass. Like I said I'm sorry for what happened to your plants. From the look of the pictures on your site they're salvageable, but if not let me know what your losses are and I'll see if I can take up a collection among the community to replace them. Hell, we can even deliver them by bike if you'd like!
I also see a shared apartment pool as a little different than "your house" or "your bike" (or your plants). Have you never hopped a fence late at night to go for a swim in a pool you didn't own? It's a good time and I highly recommend it. You should join one of our rides and give it a go.
If you really feel the need to party at my place, I live at [CENSORED DUE TO STALKERS]. It's a house, not an apartment, and there are only 2 people (and a couple critters) who live there so much less chance of anyone calling the cops on you since we both enjoy a good party. The back yard is a great spot for events
(http://www.atxbs.com/p/2009-caveman/), though I don't have a real pool and typically keep the bikes inside. From your request it sounds like your party idea revolves around trampling things. That really wasn't our intent and to be honest that sounds like a rather lame theme for a party. You should come up with a better one (our last party was a Caveman birthday), and if a few plants get trampled or a
bike bumped into in the process, I promise I won't cry about it.If you do plan on throwing a party at my place, call me first (699-1564) and I'll try to bake a cheesecake or something, or at least tidy up a bit. It'll also give me time to put up the dogs. They're friendly, but the big black one can be intimidating if you don't know him.
Jason
Once again, she chose to express herself with succinct brevity:
Stella to Jason 2:39pm:
I think maybe you need to reread my original open letter again.
I will not be communicating with you further.
I did as she requested, and re-iterated my offer, leaving it at that:
Jason to Stella 3:00pm:
I just re-read it again, but I think I've addressed your grievances rather well. I explained that what we did was not an "action" or to proclaim a message, apologized, opened my yard to you for an unplanned party of your own AND offered to replace any plants that were damaged by cyclists carelessness. In fact I've mentioned this to a couple people who were there, and ALL of them have offered to chip in a few dollars to help with the plants. If you'd rather not speak with me again I understand, but the offer to replace your "meagre personal property" (your words) still stands. I'll take your silence as a refusal of the offer, but if you want them replaced all you've got to do is let me know and talk to people and make it happen. Believe it or not we're not all as careless as you may like to believe, many of us cyclists were frustrated by the behavior exhibited by our peers at your apartment as well. In fact, the two commenters to your letter (posted here: http://www.atxbs.com/?q=node/1950) and my followup comments in the post itself actually agree with you.
Sincerely,
Jason
This message ended our communication, though I still want Stella to know that the offer to replace the deceased flora still exists, all she has to do is let me know what was lost. I'll even deliver it via tall-bike, if it's not too large a burden.
Update: Wow after briefly re-reading this I've come to the realization that I should never be allowed near a computer. This is madness.
i would LOVE to meet the person in that apartment complex who has NEVER broken the law before.
-TLA
I'm still very confused why any one thinks that it is permissible to participate in criminal activity. You simply cannot condone anything of this nature again. It isn't smart and it isn't safe for your riders or the people's rights that you infringe upon.
Why can't a group of fun-loving, intelligent bikers come up with a better plan?
Our living space was violated and it doesn't matter that it was 10 people or 100 people. Why? Because it took one person to get in the face and harass an unarmed woman. It took one person to destroy property. It took one person to pound on a resident's glass windows.
Enough with you promoting doing this in a constructive way. It is illegal. I don't think that people intended bad to come from Tuesday night, BUT IT happened. So clearly going forward you cannot condone "good" illegal behavior and not expect it to go bad, as it did. The fact of the matter is, we are in a position to press multiple charges. We are certainly more inclined to do so if we hear about this happening again. And we have a five year statute of limitations. So come up with a better way to have fun. Stop gate crashing and pool hoping and invading private property in any fashion. And stop promoting it.
Jason, I appreciate reading your blog and support your positions on cycling rights and activism. I'm sorry my first comment here is going to be so harsh, but your continued narrative about this incident and immature responses to the eloquent and understated blogging by Stella has made me embarrassed to be connected to the cycling community responsible for this so-called ride. For the record, I don't know Stella, never read her blog before, don't live at the complex and am reacting only to what I've read here. I also realize that you are not the organizer of the ride, but your blog is making the most commentary about what happened, so I'm directing my response at you.
It is painfully clear Stella was making a rhetorical point about going to your house for an uninvited party, in a vain effort to make you understand how she felt about you and your group's actions. You don't get that?? You seriously think because you don't mind people throwing uninvited parties at your house, that makes it OK for you and a hundred people to trespass and vandalize the property and homes of strangers in the middle of the night? It's disappointing that this isn't immediately obvious, but people have different priorities than you and your friends, and make choices that are different than yours about how to spend a Tuesday evening. It's none of anyone's business about what they do with their time or how they live their life, but I hope you can imagine some of the many reasons why people would never want an uninvited party intruding on their lives on a weeknight. If you can't imagine this, well, maybe it's you who needs to get out more.
You owe Stella and the people who live at that apartment complex a lot more than lame non-apologies and offers to replace damaged plants. A cheesecake? How patronizing. I don't think you can put a price on a person's choices about their living environment, but at minimum, you might start by offering to pay the pro-rated amount of one day's rent at the complex to each of the residents, for disturbing their home and interfering with their use of their pool for the night. They pay for this stuff every month and your group took it away from them last Tuesday. Then add a payment for the additional expense of treating and cleaning the pool after being used by so many people at the same time. Plus damages for the vandalism. Then factor in a fine for the general douchebaggery of having it happen in the first place. Better make a lot of those cheesecakes and have a bake sale to start paying for all of this.
You can't take back what you've done or said, but at the very least you could recognize the scale of your actions instead of diminishing it to the value of a few plants.
It does read like you were egging her on even though I know that wasn't necessarily your intention. All she wanted was an apology, and there isn't a clear one given here, just justifications and "Well I'm sorry YOU felt that we bugged you." Even if you think you're right, apologies go a long way to mending things quickly and kindly. ESPECIALLY WITH MOST WOMEN.
She disabled her comments, but maybe she'll come here:
Stella, while I wasn't in attendance, I am incredibly sorry for the behavior some members of the cycling community exhibited Tuesday night. As a woman, I understand how fearful you must have been when a unruly gang came into your living space, ruined your property, and then harassed you and your fellow residents. It was unacceptable and we'll be receiving our karma for this from the Austin community for awhile. It's regrettable, and I certainly hope this hasn't permanently tainted your views towards all cyclists.
... many apologies were offered at the time of the incident. I'm not entirely certain, but I think I personally apologized to Stella myself (or at least somebody else in front of her apartment.)
I got there, and did not like what I found (it was loud, in a place where the smallest amount of noise would be unacceptable, and the residents were already annoyed), and apologized to the residents near me, and then started suggesting to people that it was time for us to leave. And I wasn't alone in any of this. And shortly after, people started leaving. It was all over in like ten minutes.
As for the property ruined, it looks like somebody bumped her planter. Perhaps it was the owner of this green bike? In any event, I think the term `ruined' is too strong here -- a few minutes later and the dirt is back where it belongs. I don't think the plant was hurt. Not sure how the planter was mounted, perhaps that needed to be fixed too.
I did not hear any of the things she said were said, but that doesn't mean they weren't said. (Did anybody hear them?) If you're on one of these rides (or anywhere, really) and the guy next to you is being a jerk when he shouldn't be, EXPRESS YOUR DISAPPROVAL. Loudly if needed. Peer pressure can be a powerful force for good (or evil, but let's concentrate on good.)
And if somebody is being a jerk to you (like one of the residents chewing you out) consider where they're coming from. In this case, we were the ones in the wrong, and so if somebody is chewing you out, the proper response is to apologize or excuse yourself and walk off or something -- not to respond in kind. Sure, they could be nicer or more reasonable or whatever, but it's their home, you're the guest ...
Ultimately, I don't think she's interested in apologies or anybody repairing her planter. Right now, we're the bad guys, and that's all we are. If she accepts apologies or amends, that makes us less bad guys -- and I think she likes it this way better.
Re-reading my emails, I'm realizing that. I guess it's the asshole in me showing through. I've written an apology letter and sent it to all the residents that I have email addresses for, as well as posted it here and sent it to the Chronicle. I repeated my offer to make amends, hopefully that'll show the sincerity in my words.
i have more than a few basil plants if she wants to take one... i can help add to her garden.
quite honestly i was on the side of the angered residents until this person became their unofficial spokesperson. she absolutely refuses to acknowledge that someone is trying to make amends and set things right, which is an extraordinarily childish stance to take. if the antagonization had continued past that night, i would understand the continued bitterness in the exchanges from her to you, but since you have done nothing but try to make amends it's up to her now to stop acting like such an annoyed little woman.
-TLA
Although I appreciate the fact that Jason is taking over the responsibility of whomever caused the brunt of the damage, I have to remind myself that people are responsible for their own actions. Jason is a better person for accepting the responsiblity, speaking for the biking community, offering a truce, and trying to fix things. Good luck!
i am definitely down to chip in. hell i'll even go over there myself and do a little gardening. i hate that people were disrespectful...and although i'm sure there's already a bad taste left in the residents of that apartments mouth the least i can do is offer a breath mint
Shit y'all!
Whatever happened to keeping things on the down-low while doing something illegal?
At the risk of coming off like the geezer that I am, I'll just say that this sort of "fun" will me think twice before I participate in any more group rides. (no I wasn't there)
Just as sitting inside a steel cage with wheels makes some people inappropriately brave and cocky, so does hanging out in large groups tend to bring out the worst in people.
I've always been suspicious of group-think. It's often ugly, dangerous and devoid of common sense. In our hearts, we know what's appropriate, but the group has a will of its own. Be careful out there.
Maybe a LONG FAST RIDE BEFORE jumping into someone's pool (or whatever action) will keep the core group action smaller, more intimate and more socially sensitive; minimizing any possible damage being done to property and the reputation of your fledgling community.
Good call Bob. The ride was 100+ strong at the beginning and that was a small apartment pool. At that scope there's no way we COULD have kept it quiet and non disturbing. This was by far the largest Midnight Ridazz Ride we've ever had, and I think if it gets this big in the future the stops will have to be planned a little differently. After the first stop there was a good bit of riding before the second pool, at which point everybody seemed a little more sedate and less rambunctious. We didn't have any problems with the residents, and I don't think there was any damage done to the property.
Oftentimes group-think is the problem. Don't be sheep, y'all. Think about what you do and consider the effects of your actions. Before you mouth off to that old party-pooper telling you to quiet down, think to yourself, would you want some punk-ass kid mouthing off or harassing your parents like that?
Thanks for being a voice of reason in the community, Bob. Lets keep the crime on the DL, folks.
Voice of reason? Not sure I resemble that remark. Fred's been elbowing me for switching over to the "dark side" lately. I guess it's all about perspective and viewpoint, eh?