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Rob, replacing 4-way stops with traffic circles will increase, not decrease, motor vehicle traffic.
"In addition to reducing accidents, traffic circles have been found to be effective at reducing vehicle speeds, but have not significantly reduced traffic volumes. The effect on speed generally carries over to the middle of the block, however to a lesser extent than near the intersection. The minimal impact on traffic volumes allows circles to be used as a spot safety device without needing to address the impacts of traffic diverting to other residential streets. Traffic circles can change a street's attractiveness as a cut- through route by their reduction in traffic speeds and reducing the wide open appearance of a street. The cumulative effect of several circles, along a street, may have a significant effect on traffic volumes, but this is dependent on the availability of alternative routes.
After nearly twenty-five years of experience installing traffic circles, Seattle has found them to be an effective device for controlling neighborhood traffic and improving the safety of residential streets. Additionally, residents feel traffic circles have successfully addressed their safety concerns and make their neighborhood a better place to live. "
from here:
http://www.usroads.com/journals/rmej/9801/rm980102.htm
it doesn't say they increased traffic volume, by enticing mad angry drivers away from the major streets, who don't want to wait at the lights... they would be going slower down this road anyway, it wouldn't make sense to use it as an alt. Lavaca or Guad. route...
"On many of Portland’s residential streets, 15% or more of the vehicles routinely
exceeded 35 mph. After traffic circles were installed, vehicles rarely exceed 35
mph. The larger circles (12-foot radius) appear to reduce vehicle speeds more
than smaller traffic circle islands. Moreover, the analysis found that traffic circles have dramatically reduced, if not almost eliminated, reported accidents, especially multi-vehicle collisions."
from here: http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/low_cost_traf/low_cost_traf.pdf
Your links aren't talking about replacing 4-way-stops with traffic circles.
that's not necessarily true, are you just making this up based on assumptions that people don't want to stop at lights and signs, so they'll gladly go out of the way to go down a road with traffic circles... ?
I would, and do, when I'm driving. 4-way stops are a pain in the ass when you're driving as well as when you're cycling. Traffic circles require slowing down a little bit; but you rarely need to stop.
Replacing 4-way stops with traffic circles will increase motor vehicle use of this road - period. They're better for cyclists who obey the law, sure, but you're also going to be sharing the road with a lot more commuting drivers who are angry and cut over a couple blocks to avoid Guadalupe/Lavaca.
This thing is turning into Shoal Creek Deux quicker than I predicted.
The only reason more vehicles don't use Nueces now is because of the stop signs at every block.
Without traffic diversion cars will flock to this road as a Guad./Lavaca/Lamar alternative. Sadly it may be better to do nothing at all if such concessions are being made already.
Nueces doesn't need to be a bike boulevard... Traffic circles ARE a really good thing and do considerably slow traffic and it makes cars and bikes happy 'cause they don't have to stop. If done right, it can also be a beautiful thing, take Hyde Park area for example, several roads with traffic circles and overall a beautiful neighborhood and a fun ride.... and aren't sharrows just beefed up bike lanes... so why would this be a bad thing?
In my opinion it would be a backwards step to shut off a street to cars completely, especially in this town, there are trails so you don't have to even be on the road, or plenty of routes with good bike lanes to get you almost anywhere... why can't we share.... when I ride nueces now, I like it, bike boulevards need to be smaller than a full width road, and needs to be located between roads, not on them... just my two cents now
Sharrows are not "beefed up bike lanes". They're bits of paint on the road. If anything, they're *emasculated* bike lanes, but they're not even that -- after all, that bit of paint doesn't prohibit or permit anything. All it does it remind people to watch out for bikes. At least a bike lane prohibits cars from driving in it (with in a few exceptions.)
And the plan for Nueces has never been to "shut off a street to cars completely". Perhaps you should go read up on what's really being proposed and come back when you're done?
I was really just trying to exaggerate the point that physically reducing the amount of vehicular traffic would be a step in the wrong direction, for this project. Bicycle boulevards do this in several ways, most effectively by prohibiting vehicles from entering onto streets, with the use of signs and barriers, thus shutting it off to cars, or at least, sections of it. In my mind, adding some traffic circles and eliminating the N/S stop signs along Nueces would be enough to make drivers and cyclists happy, no need to add pinch points, raised ped. crossings, or any of that other fancy stuff they need to use to call it a "bike boulevard" Slowing traffic and reducing traffic build up will help cyclists and vehicles, no need to to discourage any vehicular traffic yet, and no need to say we now have a "bike boulevard", that term is misleading in so many ways...
In a more perfect world, I would rather them make the road more narrow to further slow traffic, add undulating sidewalks for interest, with places to sit in front of businesses and shops, trees lining the street while also dividing a bike lane on each side of the street, or only one, from vehicles, and add selective angled street parking as opposed to parallel all up and down the street, where needed most, and then to encourage any new big development to create roof or garage parking for their businesses... and of course have traffic circles every 3 or 4 blocks, and eliminating the N/S stop signs...
http://www.ted.com/talks/gary_lauder_s_new_traffic_sign_take_turns.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONS2ptAR4mo
I've talked with some folks directly involved and it sounds like sharrows on nueces, hopefully no traffic circles (way worse than stop signs), but the recommendation for Rio Grande as the boulevard is being strongly pushed due to ACC and the fact that Nueces is a first-responder route for emergency services. This is a bit disappointing, as I know that I will continue to ride Nueces due to its superior geography and road quality, however I think it is important that the wheels are turning on this project (pun intended). I just wish the city wouldn't spend all of the money on a half-assed project.
On the other hand, fuck yeah for the Pluger bridge expansion. Finally, a bridge to somewhere!
I've always been a bit wary of traffic circles, but I've seen the data from extensive studies, and it's quite convincing. There are intersections that have high accident rates (e.g. up to 20 a year) and they cut them down considerably. I think I recall 60-70 percent in one study. So I'm now all for them...especially since it means that you can keep rolling without worrying about a complete stop on the grid.
The first responder route has very little to do with what will be recommended...all the traffic calming has been thoroughly vetted with Fire/EMS.
You can probably learn a lot more at http://www.lobv.org
Think big. And big thoughts will spring into the sky....Releasing the pressure upward and spreading the vision far and wide until it impregnates all that breathe its mist, while it still returns gently unto thine nostrils and thine lungs and every corpuscle in your living corpse. Think small, and it will burrow into your cranium, a worm seed that weighs its way into your bowels while you wait, wait, and wait.
So what are you worried about on Nueces?